Curse

Martin Alvito · Sep 12, 2007, 12:29 AM // 00:29

Stealth update at the rare mat trader:

Couple of interesting things about this:

1) Implemented without a patch. If you've had Onyx, you know that it was disabled at the trader (he'd only buy it at 250 and wouldn't sell it). I'd have thought a patch would have been required in order to make a change @ global traders. Oops.

2) Remember the trader reset waaaay back in the Stone Age, where everything reset to 100 gold? Clearly ANet has implemented the ability to introduce items at a price they set. Unless you seriously think that it ran up to 11k in the two hours between when I checked it earlier in the day and now.

He's usually sold out of it; feel free to speculate on the resulting likely direction of Onyx prices. Keep in mind that it takes a while for a dramatic price rise; it took several days for trader prices to settle out during the full trader reset.

EDIT: That pic was waaaaay too large; what was I thinking?

Ravensky · Sep 12, 2007, 12:57 AM // 00:57

They're based on supply and demand. If no one sells to the trader, they have none to sell.

Martin Alvito · Sep 12, 2007, 01:01 AM // 01:01

I don't think you understand. If you offered one to the trader (as recently as yesterday) he offered 250 for it. Suddenly, he offers 8.5k? Further, I have never previously observed Onyx for sale at the trader (and I look at him pretty often). There was definitely a server-side update.

Also, I can *assure* you that he spawns new items every so often. Unless you want to believe that during the trader reset, people were selling, say, Sup Vigors worth 80k on the open market to the trader for 25 gold. I choose to believe that no one that plays this game is quite *that* dumb.

Ravensky · Sep 12, 2007, 01:03 AM // 01:03

I think they sold to the trader for 250g because they had none to base their price off of, so it went by the default price on them. Now that the trader has some, it's basing the prices off of how many are left in stock (I think)

Martin Alvito · Sep 12, 2007, 01:06 AM // 01:06

Does it strike you as more than a little coincidental that the price (based on what, in your hypothesized mechanism, would be very limited data) apparently instantly converged upon the open-market price of the item?

Captain Arne Is PRO · Sep 12, 2007, 01:11 AM // 01:11

Holy shit this place should be renamed (again) to the Conspiracy Theory Forum.

Loviatar · Sep 12, 2007, 01:20 AM // 01:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

Does it strike you as more than a little coincidental that the price (based on what, in your hypothesized mechanism, would be very limited data) apparently instantly converged upon the open-market price of the item?

they could not change it without an update.

finally enough were sold to the trader so he has stock which reaches market very fast.

example

when the rush for rubys hit he was out of stock until enough were sold to get them and a price.

they were not really out of stock they were simply being sold instantly.

i bought several while he was out of stock by simply camping him and hitting get a price until for a moment one was available

no price fixing no so called stealth update

Martin Alvito · Sep 12, 2007, 01:20 AM // 01:20

*sigh*

A simple set of deductions that follow logically from observations does not constitute a conspiracy theory. Would you explain this outcome in some other way that's not a "conspiracy theory"?

Loviatar · Sep 12, 2007, 01:23 AM // 01:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

*sigh*

A simple set of deductions that follow logically from observations does not constitute a conspiracy theory. Would you explain this outcome in some other way that's not a "conspiracy theory"?

i thought i did and gave a real personal example

makosi · Sep 12, 2007, 01:23 AM // 01:23

I saw Onyx prices at 11k which is about the price players were buying/selling from personal observations. I see no problems that will come of this whether it is a stealth update or not.

Martin Alvito · Sep 12, 2007, 01:25 AM // 01:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

they could not change it without an update.

Not true. Explain how NPCs go away at the end of special events without an update, if this is accurate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

finally enough were sold to the trader so he has stock which reaches market very fast.

At 250 gold? To the rare mat trader and not the merch (who pays the same price)? I find this highly unlikely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

when the rush for rubys hit he was out of stock until enough were sold to get them and a price.

Rubies were already active at the trader and had been for months. Different issue entirely.

When the price reset occurred two years ago, all items that were previously active at the trader were available (contingent on supply). I was able to buy a couple of runes I could not have afforded at that time at well below market prices in this fashion.

If the item CAN be sold at the trader, it is available at the trader (contingent upon supply, of course); given that I look at the trader many times during a play session, if it had been available I'd have observed an instance.

Martin Alvito · Sep 12, 2007, 01:26 AM // 01:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

i thought i did and gave a real personal example

The "conspiracy theory" reference was directed at Captain Arne. I could not see your post when I hit quick reply.

CyberMesh0 · Sep 12, 2007, 01:28 AM // 01:28

Definitely interesting... since it goes out of stock JUST LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE, and took a while to get into the trader JUST LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE.

Conspiracy theories ftl.

Martin Alvito · Sep 12, 2007, 01:35 AM // 01:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberMesh0

Definitely interesting... since it goes out of stock JUST LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE, and took a while to get into the trader JUST LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE.

1) Specific example of "takes a while to get into trader"? I will continue to cite trader reset as evidence that this is not the case - once it's in there, it's in there.

2) As in above posts, explain instant convergence on open-market price. Shouldn't happen.

Please note that I'm not saying that ANet introducing it at market price is a BAD thing (if you were around for the trader reset, a communist trader is seriously ftl).

Loviatar · Sep 12, 2007, 01:44 AM // 01:44

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

Not true. Explain how NPCs go away at the end of special events without an update, if this is accurate.

very easy on that one.

the code to remove them is part of the event build no further build required

Quote:

At 250 gold? To the rare mat trader and not the merch (who pays the same price)? I find this highly unlikely.

if they are out that is the starting point

Quote:

Rubies were already active at the trader and had been for months. Different issue entirely.

the trader listed them as out of stock therefore relevant

Quote:

When the price reset occurred two years ago, all items that were previously active at the trader were available (contingent on supply). I was able to buy a couple of runes I could not have afforded at that time at well below market prices in this fashion.

i missed it by 16 lousey minutes

Quote:

If the item CAN be sold at the trader, it is available at the trader (contingent upon supply, of course); given that I look at the trader many times during a play session, if it had been available I'd have observed an instance.

and that is my main point.

i said *camped* the guy

we are talking major clickfest camping not once every few minutes but as fast as you can sustained clickfest.

he was out of stock until i happened to be the lucky clicker that goy a price and the ruby than he was out of stock for 8 minutes straight until i got lucky again.

4 hours apart as an experiment for 15 minutes straight resulted in 1 ruby/0 rubys/2 rubys/1 ruby/0 rubys.

anybody checking at random several times a session probably would have gotten an OOS every time

i sent a PM to a mod at that time as well as mentioning it here

so it did happen

few sellers lots of would be buyers it adds up

Martin Alvito · Sep 12, 2007, 02:01 AM // 02:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

if they are out that is the starting point

Fair enough. However, he was still buying at 250 two days ago when I sold my supply to other traders. I was informed by a guildie that he was still buying at 250 yesterday. Further, the same 'bug' was observed in all instances - he displayed a price of 1,600 that he would buy at when you pulled up the menu to sell to him, but when you actually requested a price, it displayed 250. This was constant behavior from the preview weekend forward.

This price should have moved in the event that people were actually selling to the trader. It did not.

These prices DID move in your rubies case, as well as for other phenomena such as the runes during the trader reset. I am aware of the necessity for hardcore clickfest under circumstances of scarce supply; however, the lack of price movement suggests that your scenario was not operative here.

I conclude that Onyx was not active at the trader.

KANE OG · Sep 12, 2007, 02:49 AM // 02:49

Anyone that believes anet can't set a fixed price on anything at the merchant/materials trader, etc. is an idiot.

KANE

Tarus From Taros · Sep 12, 2007, 03:09 AM // 03:09

I don't really think this is debatable, Martin is right. If this was simply due to mass amount's of people selling at 250g and buying right away there would be people on here noting that there was a steady incline when available via text or SS, there wouldn't have been that dramatic of a price jump in such a short amount of time.

I'm not saying that Supply and demand doesn't exist for trader prices, it's just part of the equation (albeit a large part). Arenanet can change the value of the NPC's anyway they like.

I don't see how changing the prices of an item or even Anet adding some to the market via traders would require an update. I think it's very possible for them to do that without us needing an update of the dat.

Croco Clouds · Sep 12, 2007, 03:23 AM // 03:23

No stock for now, maybe i'll try later

Shantel Span · Sep 12, 2007, 05:10 AM // 05:10

Whats crazy is, I bought one of those from the Rare Material trader several months before the release of EotN...and at that time the trader was wanting to buy it back for me for a couple k, not 250g.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10072012